#9368807 - 07/30/18 12:27 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Corytrade]
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Sir Ironpool
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Registered: 03/12/01
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Loc: Long Beach, CA
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#9368831 - 07/30/18 06:35 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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charlie_td1
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Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 39135
Loc: DC
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whewww I don't know how you trail guys do it...I'll stick to my roads, thanks 
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#9369036 - 07/30/18 11:06 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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dirtyS13drifta
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On out down/back up is brutal! You never realize how much muscle work you're doing down hill but the downs (eccentric contractions) are huge amounts of work and really take their toll on your muscles. Then having to charge back up on tired legs? Yeah
Don't underestimate the air of 5k feet. either. And the pack weight.
A trail half for your first true trail run is gnarly.
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#9369041 - 07/30/18 11:13 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Wrapped up a nice hike/run Friday as my last prep for this weekend's 50km. Basically only 7 days of "taper" since the 50km is sort of training for septembers 50M.
South Sister climb: 6 miles from 4k to 10k as a "hike" with friends and then the long way jog back down(10) with 2 miles screw slope and 2 miles of off-trail. Had to carry about 10-12lbs of gear for safety. Total for the day: ~18miles, 6k+ of vert, and tons of time at altitude.
Ps this is a GREAT hike if you're in the Bend area.
Next Saturday: 32m and 7k of vert
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#9371252 - 08/02/18 09:46 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Corytrade]
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charlie_td1
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Registered: 09/26/02
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Tapering before a race is common. For example, my current marathon training plan is 18 weeks long. The last 3 weeks of the plan are "taper", where it goes from your normal training weekly mileage to a gradual lower mileage. It allows your legs rest and be "fresh" for the race whilst maintaining that peak performance that you've obtained from the training. If you see the image below, my taper begins in week 16. Week 15 I'm at 68 miles, 16 I'm down to 55-57, Week 17 I'm down to 43, and race week I'm primarily running to stay loose.
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#9371307 - 08/02/18 10:37 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Corytrade]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Wow, that's a lot of vert, but your gonna feel amazing after your done feeling tired, lol.
Can you explain tapers, I have heard people talk about it, but not really clear of it or when to do it.
Yeah, my quads are slowly getting beastly from these hilly weeks. Like my goto route is dead flat. Vert for the year is about to cross 50k tho
Tapering: resting/recovery/saving engergy up to a race. No hard work outs. Just a few "jogs" to stay loose, maybe some fartleks, but nothign actualy hard. Presume the "hay is in the barn" and that any training benefits this late are minimal and the risks of injury or just being tired will decrease performance. I saw someone describe racing as the celebration of your training.
Different schools of thought on length. But normally it's ~1 week for a half, 2-3 for a full. It probably varies on teh type of training though.
I'm definitely cutting it short doing a long/hard day only 8 days before a "race" but this race is a form of extra training for me. NO PRs, no big aspirations.
Edited by dirtyS13drifta (08/02/18 10:51 AM)
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#9374213 - 08/08/18 09:08 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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charlie_td1
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Registered: 09/26/02
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Yesterday was by far and away the worst run I've had all training season. Holy shit. 10 miles, 5@15k to half mrathon pace, which is 6:35-6:45 min/mile. I was wildly inconsistent in my warmup, and I could BARELY muster a 6:55 for 2 of the 5, and I was pushing WAY harder than I should be. I was at 5k effort to get that out. I know weather has a lot to do with it, as it was 85% humidity and 80 degrees, but I am very discouraged and more tired than I should be, given I have a 14 miler today after work.
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#9374489 - 08/08/18 02:48 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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dirtyS13drifta
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That's pretty high heat index, I wouldn't beat yourself up over that.
Also, anychange you're overdoing it? Like I seem to remember you doing a lot of fast-ish miles. Have you checked your resting heart-rate?
50km went well, Ended up with 8:40 which was slower than ultrasignup calculated time, but sort of where I expected. I thought about "taking it easy" for 9 hours, but there was no taking it easy on this course. I came out of the gates a little hot through the first aid station, lots of sunny/warm miles, lots of boulders. I feel sorry for the folks backpackng this loop. It was hard enough with a running vest.
I get very sore in my muscles on these events. Trying to figure out if I was lightly cramping or what. Normally I feel better if I stop, but who wants to stop. Maybe this is just normal lactic build up/not enough weekly miles.
Legs feel about 80% recovered. I did 4 yesterday, 5 today. the heat sucks lately(100 later today) plus air quality watch.
I'm debating on a 40 miles solo day in 2 weeks time (and a 50m 3 weeks later).
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#9374754 - 08/09/18 09:48 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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dirtyS13drifta
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I really think it’s the heat. Are you judging effort on hr or feel. Either will suffer a lot.
Come fall you’ll feel like a rocket
My watch had a performance index and I can see it suffer in summer(especially with more miles) and then bounce back in fall.
Don’t beat yourself up.
50km is baby ultra. It’s just a really slow marathon with a few extra jogged 5kms. No more training than full I’d guess. Maybe more hills and a slower runs.
Course record on last weeks race: 9:50. My 30tg percentile pace 16. Lol
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#9374777 - 08/09/18 10:14 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Yeah I totally get like a 20bpm bump in hot weather. Like it starts off less but as I get warm. Don't go only on HR (or just suffering), like how hard are you breathing, how do you legs feel. Odds are you don't FEEL like you're working that hard(even if the heat makes it sort of miserable). This is a known shortfall of HR.
Sleep can even effect the HR, so don't overly rely on it. It's an unreliable tool. (I use it a lot too I'll admit)
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#9374902 - 08/09/18 12:56 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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charlie_td1
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No, I was definitely feeling every single bit of the increased effort  But I'm going to chalk it up again to heat, humidity, and just being on tired legs like you're supposed to be whilst marathon training
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#9379253 - 08/17/18 12:47 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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stickaz_old
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Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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Summer heat easily adds 1:00/mi to all my paces, if not more
9 miles this week, I think like 3 last week. Nailing it
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso 
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#9379807 - 08/19/18 09:58 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: stickaz_old]
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charlie_td1
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Registered: 09/26/02
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I'm SUPER happy with my run this morning. The humidity dropped, and so did my split times. Average heartrate was sitting at like 151, and I was holding back big time. Really encouraged by how consistent and strong I felt today. Next sunday is 16 with 12 at pace, so we'll see how I feel.
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#9383009 - 08/24/18 01:34 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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stickaz_old
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Registered: 02/04/01
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Tangent:
I seem to be on a continued downtrend, some health probs, got sick again/cold symptoms/allergies/annoying
Hoping to reset my mile/5k/10k and half prs before year end but not looking good. Haven't had a >20 mile week since before my 70.3 a month ago lol. Travel to India appears to have beaten the snot out of me.
I have had a few good 10k tempo runs around 46 flat so for me that seems like I'm on track but who knows.
On the plus side my injuries are all pretty much quiet and my Achilles is barely noticeable and I never limp in the morning anymore.
Struggle is real over here In my AG
I need to get some hard workouts back in but am too sick to even get basic mileage in right now. I *might* hit 20 this week if I skip a swim and bike workout. I really wish I had the health to do a 3x1 mile workout at 5k rp right now on 60s rest, but I'd probably vomit/vertigo/collapse. I could jog a 5k I guess and just get another easy workout in.
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#9383942 - 08/27/18 11:40 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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dirtyS13drifta
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I've had some serious bear attacks over the years (in fact yesterday).
I've taken to having my coffee/oatmeal before a run, shitting early. I tend not to each much leading up. STill occasionally have to.
I find running regularly seems to reduce it. Like it keeps everything moving daily.
But yeah, Mr mom isn't wrong to carry wipes. They can clean up a lot. Even without GI they can bum-shower you up.
Last week was tough, family shit disrupted my schedule and then I had liek 0 energy on saturday. Which was a wide open training day. Bounced back and took the stroller for an easy 11 mile push on Sunday at least. Finally no smoke in the air and finally normal-ish temperatures.
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#9389302 - 09/05/18 11:40 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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stickaz_old
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Registered: 02/04/01
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Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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I lobbed a growler into the bushes next to a HS track over the weekend. Always seems to happen when I stress out over a hard-ish effort such as a track workout #meganslist
$boom
Wiped with what was either oak leaves or poison oak #sustainable
My running is completely off plan now, have a scheduled 5k race, 10k, and a half still on the calendar this year and not expecting much.
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#9389410 - 09/05/18 01:34 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: stickaz_old]
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dirtyS13drifta
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My running is off plan too.
Only an 80k next weekend and a 21k in November left
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#9389995 - 09/06/18 11:47 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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charlie_td1
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Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 39135
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I'm still on track. Yesterday's heat index was 102....15 miles. Not my smartest decision...I thought I could handle it by pulling back on the pace a little bit, but the weather absolutely broke me. Can we guess where I hit the wall? (Moving time=Split times)
I definitely think I had heat exhaustion. I got home, tried to cool down and eat, but I couldn't really muster an appetite. Nausea, cramping, headache...eh. I think I lost something like 3 lbs in water weight, too. Thank god I have a short recovery run today...
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#9390019 - 09/06/18 12:26 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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dirtyS13drifta
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I'm actually less nervous/more resigned that this 50m may go very badly.
Like I've been fighting some fatigue off/on for the last 6 weeks. I'm not sure I fully appreciated the recovery from the last 50km. It was much harder than prior ones (50% slower). Add in lots of heat (yay new record of days >90 degress), wildfire smoke(sure run 5 miles when it's "red" air quality) and I'm "tapering" at this point.
CN: swirls either overtrained or is a wuss. Possibly both
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#9391210 - 09/07/18 04:30 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: ]
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stickaz_old
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Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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I'm starting track workout s again
Did 3x1 mile repeats at 10-15s slower than last year, with additional rest and it hurt more
Hopefully this is just a summer cold and cold medicine sluggishness
Either way, I will get a track workout in every week. Still pretty convinced I can't get within :60s of my 5k PR from last year, but might as well start to fake it like it might happen
The sum of my biking and running YTD is normal for the last 4 yrs, so who knows, just need to shake the rust off
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#9391334 - 09/07/18 07:58 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: stickaz_old]
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charlie_td1
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Registered: 09/26/02
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Loc: DC
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12 miles with 7 at a bit faster than 15k pace (first 2 were just getting into my stride), and I definitely had more left in the tank. Got caught in a thunderstorm the last mile and a half, but all in all I am really happy with this run in both pace and consistency. It rained earlier and the temperature dropped like 10 degrees.
Edited by Chas, Chuck, Charles, etc. (09/07/18 07:58 PM)
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#9391851 - 09/08/18 10:05 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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stickaz_old
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Registered: 02/04/01
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I wonder if them talents are better suited to middle D up to maybe the 5k?
Good stuff man
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#9392492 - 09/10/18 11:14 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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stickaz_old
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Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 56459
Loc: Nor Cal, Hella hurr durr
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Are you racing your long runs? (170 HR is what for you? 88% MHR?)
I thought long runs we're supposed to be comfortable. What do I know tho. I think more advanced plans have this, eg Galen Rupp does a long-fast run in the 4 weeks before a key race
_________________________
Swim->Bike->Cry "I can see that nurses head bobbing around going "I AINT CANCELIN MUH PLANS, FUCK A CDC. WHO DEY ANYWAY NAH MEEN? IMA GO SEE MUH BOO" -johnso
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#9396251 - 09/14/18 07:24 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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charlie_td1
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Registered: 09/26/02
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Another strong run tonight. 2.5 warmup, 15k race, 1.6 cool down.
15k: 59:27, 6:22 overall. SUPER encouraged, last mile was hard as fuck but holy hell am I happy with this pace. VDOT chart says my estimate is a 2:57 marathon...:o 
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#9396305 - 09/14/18 09:38 PM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: charlie_td1]
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charlie_td1
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Registered: 09/26/02
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holy shit. I just found out that I just got an extra 5 minutes.
I'm 34 now, but will be 35 during the 2020 Boston Marathon. Qualifying times are determined by your age AT THE TIME OF THE RACE. Oh man, I am so stoked 
That being said, 3:00 is still my goal 
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#9396456 - 09/15/18 10:19 AM
Re: Running/Cardio Thread
[Re: Sir Ironpool]
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Corytrade
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Registered: 07/27/02
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Thanks; it's taken a lot of work to get here, but I am overall happy with the progress.
Yep, I am hoping to qualify for Boston; REALLY hoping for a 3:00:00.
Ah, the long run shits. I've trained my body to poop before a run. Diet wise, the day before a long run I try to eat as clean as possible: lean meats and complex carbs, light on the fiber. Even then, I've had to dive into the woods and go mid run before...I always take a handful of TP with me just in case.
What is your diet like?
I always carry a ziplock with baby wipes on my longer runs. I also know several people that take Imodium before long runs or races.
Ah, poor followup on my post. So my diet on the day before my long runs varies. I have gone complex carbs all day with just some protein, and then other times I am a glutton and will eat ice cream the night before a long run. Either way it seems like I am having to shit the next day during my long run. I think though I really need to reflect on my diet during the whole week, because I'll eat garbage (candy, pie, chips, etc.) during the week and try to go clean the day before the long run. That's really my issue probably. I have started doing a lot more salads, trying to add some ruffage into the diet, and I have been doing bagels daily for breakfast to try and keep my carb ratio high in my diet. I think if I just remove more of the snack/junk food, I will have more control...I hope.
I like the loperamide idea, because it has no systemic effects that lomotil or the scopolamine patch would cause. Thanks.
In other news I had to move my 50k back 5 weeks. Two reasons really, my wife just found out she has to be TDY on the event date, plus I am not sure if my training is at a level I want it to be for a clean finish. I am at ~35 miles per week, and while I am sure I can muscle through a 50k, I think a few extra weeks wont hurt. So now I am focusing on the Mt. Tam 50k (North of SF) on Nov. 3. Hell or highwater I am finishing one by years end.
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Moderator: Silock, Professor Paki
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It’s always easy to pick out the new transfers from road running at an ultra/trail race. They’re the the ones charging ful steam up the first hills, then getting passed as they die later in the race. 
