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#8593008 - 03/18/16 06:31 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
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#8594751 - 03/20/16 06:10 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
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Second 50k of the month in the books. This race was the Valencia 50k, which for those that don't know the area, is about 30 minutes north of LA off to the east of I5 and kinda near Six Flags Magic Mountain.
This was the inaugural race, so it was on the smaller side but it ended up being pretty fantastic. Tough course though...5300ft of very spread out over the entire 30 miles so it was a pretty constant up and down that started with a 700 or so foot climb in the first mile to get up into the hills. I was in a group of the top 3 or 4 minus pro ultra stud Jesse Haynes who I lost sight of within 10 minutes.

The course was 2 different loops (they ran a concurrent 10k and half Mary)that overlapped followed by a long out and back with a 2 mile detour down a big hill (and back up). First loop flew by with some spectacular single track along a knife ridge, where I passed a girl that was fast on everything but that. Watching her slide down the steep stuff on her tight little LuLu Lemon clad ass was pretty funny. I passed her and stayed in 2nd for the next few miles before she caught me on the second loop. I was feeling pretty good...the climbing and descending was tough on the legs, but aerobically I was hardly working.
Started the 50k only stretch and then made it down the long descent to the first turnaround. I was caught there by another guy and a woman and we all started back up. I stayed with the guy, but the chick was gone! She was moving so well on that climb it was pretty amazing. After topping back out and continuing on the ridge line I had slowly dropped the other guy, meaning I had settled into 4th overall, 2nd male. I was carrying two bottles, one with water, the other with Gatorade. I was draining both about every 75 minutes to start, but it started getting quite warm so I used the water to douse myself every 10 minutes or so. Again, no fuel in this race other than salt stick chewables (2 an hour, then 2 every half hour after it warmed up) a few cups of Coke and a single handful of peanut M&M's and pretzels. With the Gatorade I doubt I took in more than 300 calories the whole race.
At the last turnaround there was no staff so you had to grab a button from a box so they knew you'd gone the whole way. Made the turn and started the 9 mile return trip. I could see here that I was about 10 minutes behind the two ladies and a good 45 minutes behind the leader. I could also see that the 3rd place guy was only 2 or 3 minutes behind me...but he was looking pretty tired. At this point I popped 2 ibuprofen as my legs and feet were starting to grumble and I wanted to increase that gap so I wasn't running scared the last few miles.
From there to the finish it was the same constant 3 or 4 minute climb, followed by an equal descent on rocky, exposed fire road. I tried to stay cool and attack the climbs, recovering on the descents. Hard to get into a rhythm. I would occasionally look back and could see 5th place a few hills back, getting father every time I looked. Blew through the last 2 aid stations figuring I had enough water, but at was slamming back the salt tabs as my quads were getting a little crampy. Hit the last downhill as hard as I could and finally saw the finish. Crossed in 5:11, only 6 or so minutes behind 2nd and 3rd place. 4th overall, 2nd male.

I'm really happy with this race. That's a solid time for me on a tough course like that. Way Too Cool might as well have been a road race in comparison, lol.

Time to rest a little with a ski trip at the end of the month and a week in Mexico later in April. Will hopefully keep the weekly mileage around 60 or so then ramp back up for May, June and July. I did just sign up for the Silver Rush 50 miler in Leadville in early July since we'll be there on vacation. It's a month out from Angeles Crest so it's incredibly smart or really stupid. We'll see. \:D

Strava file: https://www.strava.com/activities/522398138


Edited by Mrs. Ironmom (03/20/16 06:14 PM)
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#8595144 - 03/21/16 08:30 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
2000SiRacer Offline
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Nice work, Chris!

 Quote:
First loop flew by with some spectacular single track along a knife ridge, where I passed a girl that was fast on everything but that.


It's been my experience that even the fastest women are more tentative on technical downhills and exposed sections. I suspect they have stronger self preservation mechanisms

PS great strava pic, just saw that \:\)
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#8595377 - 03/21/16 11:15 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
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Nice job Chris. Solid performance.
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#8596913 - 03/22/16 01:11 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
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Forgot to mention that I've been hitting the trails with the Run Club. Usually a morning or two each week. It's helping me find some additional routes around South County.





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#8597108 - 03/22/16 03:06 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
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And while you guys are battling the el ninos and running on dry trails, don't forget your brothers in winter. This was my "run" on Sunday. Focus on vert. Loosely packed snow. At one point I post holed up to my waist and felt open air beneath my foot lol turnaround







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#8597125 - 03/22/16 03:20 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
Sir Ironpool Offline
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That looks fun as hell.
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#8597155 - 03/22/16 03:41 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
2000SiRacer Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
That looks fun as hell.


Yeah it's a blast - I'm not complaining one bit. Good to be back

That's actually the RRR course - I topped out about 120' below this point:

Warning, Spoiler:


because by then I was just following the out of bound ski tracks (hence the waist deep post holing)

EDIT: you can actually see the rock face the runners are traversing in the last picture I posted above. It's the big dark rock face


Edited by 2000SiRacer (03/22/16 03:43 PM)
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#8597367 - 03/22/16 06:00 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
schtickaz.ai Offline
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is that what people do when they dont want to ski or snowboard?
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#8597393 - 03/22/16 06:18 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: schtickaz.ai]
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 Originally Posted By: stickaz_duex
is that what people do when they dont want to ski or snowboard?


post hole up fish creek for a workout? no, not really

If people want to get outside in the winter and not ski or snowboard they snowshoe, fly fish, mountain bike, ride sleds, etc. Only idiots are out post holing up to their waists.
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#8597501 - 03/22/16 08:09 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
SJP0tato Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
Second 50k of the month in the books.


Kickass race!

Now for the selfish content:

Do you find the salt tabs help with cramping? My last two races right around mile 21-22 my calves just start cramping/locking up. I think hydration might be a part of it, but I've never tried any salt suppliments either. Maybe I'll start working 'em in for the longer races, as long as they aren't hurting they can only help, right? \:\)

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#8597748 - 03/23/16 01:06 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: SJP0tato]
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They absolutely work....and they work fast. I try to stay ahead of them but sometimes I get behind and I'll start feeling the twinges, so I'll slam a few back and within a minute or two they're gone.
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#8598161 - 03/23/16 11:10 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
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+1 for salt tabs.
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#8601233 - 03/25/16 07:12 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
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final HMP run 9 days out from my half race. what a difference a week makes I guess. Was a little cooler to my advantage. Also I ended up not doing my LSR last weekend so I'm probably a bit tapered. Either way felt like a confidence booster

last 3 miles I was able to easily keep it under 8:00/actual, I'm only hoping for ~8:29 actual next weekend in the race. Hills will be a bitch so it will be close [I hope, heh]

compared to last weeks effort I took ~40s worth of breaks [water fountains] vs about 4.5 minutes, and my pace was about :10s/mi quicker, and my HR was 1 beat lower [which is significant, imo, because of the breaks in the earlier run vs this one]. Temp was about 5* cooler this time tho [72* vs 77* which might be the only actual difference that matters heh]

I believe this is my fastest 8@HMP simulated effort by a bit [minute or so] but more importantly [to me anyways] is that it didnt hurt that much and I felt really good. Fuck hopefully I havent used up my 'good run' for the next week or so lol.

*I didn't mention the acronym GAP even once so hopefully everyone remains un-triggered

Here's a table of my recent pace runs that I'm trying to use to fine-tune what pace I'm going to target [blindly going after 8:30 actual, making sure to slow for the uphills and speed up the downhills]

date dist actual/GAP rest HR

[3/25/16] 8.1 |8:13/8:05| [:46s rest, 142 avg HR]
[3/17/16] -8.0- |8:22/8:15| [3:58s rest, 143 avg HR]
[2/26/16] -8.1- |8:22/8:13| [1:25s rest, 141 avg HR]
[2/19/16] -8.0- |8:23/8:14| [:40s rest, no HR data]
[2/5/16] -6.2- |7:56/7:54| [:0s rest, no HR data]
[12/13/16] -13.2- |8:39/8:34| [:0s rest, no HR data]

I figure I'm ok effort wise if I stay out of the 150 HR-range other than briefly on the hills until around mile 9 or so, then I can probably enter that point of no return [for me] heh. My last half race 5 months ago I entered the 150s just before mile 2 ouch, and the wheels came off from mile 9 on.
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#8601935 - 03/26/16 03:43 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: schtickaz.ai]
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Well if the temperature is +/- 5* from the average temp of the last 50 years for this latitude on the second Saturday of April and global warming is not a thing and everything goes well(1) then I should be able to hold an 8:05.43 minutes/mile pace for 13.1 miles without my heart rate getting higher than that of an average American when confronted with the prospect of leaning forward off the couch to reach a bowl of snacks.

(1)not the least of which includes an average to below average(2) number of drinking fountains along the official course
(2)average being 0.85 municipal fountains per kilometer according to the American Planning Association's most recent survey circa 2009
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#8602105 - 03/26/16 06:13 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
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I'm up here in the Bay Area with my family spending the weekend with some friends so I decided to run the Dipsea trail out and back. 14.5 miles and 4500 feet of gain. It's really too bad that Ampsman chose hoes over Bro's and I had to do it solo. \:\(
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#8602146 - 03/26/16 06:53 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
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Ampsman not choosing bros before hoes? Color me SHOCKED \:\|

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#8602201 - 03/26/16 07:56 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
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I get that you think I'm an idiot, and that's perfectly fine with me. Appreciate the feedback anyways doe.

I'm about to go swim some intervals and perhaps you would suggest I go by feelz there instead of what the clock says right?

also chris thks for the non-headsup on the dipsea
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#8602347 - 03/26/16 10:23 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: schtickaz.ai]
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 Originally Posted By: stickaz_duex
I get that you think I'm an idiot, and that's perfectly fine with me. Appreciate the feedback anyways doe.

I'm about to go swim some intervals and perhaps you would suggest I go by feelz there instead of what the clock says right?

also chris thks for the non-headsup on the dipsea


I don't think you're an idiot, in fact it's quite the opposite. You're being too smart about it.

Oh well, different strokes and all that. Whatever floats your goat.
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#8602571 - 03/27/16 01:11 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
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Hopefully just to clarify my comment earlier: I accept the criticism...
I don't know if I mentioned it but I only do this like 1x/week at most, I've done it 4 times this year and I jog at an easy pace the rest of the time. I've kinda given up on intervals/running as I think those led to my overtraining burnout earlier

But I know no better way to learn where my threshold run /limits are, so I try to collect whatever information I can that I think is relevant when comparing identical runs. Probably the most important is evaluating how it 'felt'

Trying to prevent my tendency to bonk at mile 9 in 2/3 half marathons I've done to date. In the one I didn't, I didn't even attempt to run my best, just have a conservative pace. Probably left several minutes on the table.
Trying to learn what it feels like before/during an effort at this distance where I'm actually over-running running myself so I can avoid it. I realizes this kind of analysis triggers the more 'natural" or those who e learned to go by feel. I wish that was me. I only do these test runs leading up to a race to re-learn what my limits are. Success to me on a 8-9 miler half marathon goal pace effort is feeling solid at the end with the ability to negative split some more and feeling like I have the ability to close out 5 more at or better than the pace I was holding.

Gotta poke the tiger and fail to know what that is. I think most importantly is to recognize what it feels like to have a bad day and to compensate. I have a history of just being a slave to pace and ignoring that and paying for it. One big mind game in my opinion learning how to get the last minute or so out of your fitness level in a race. How I deal with that is collecting data haha

I think failing hard a couple weeks ago was good and I learned from it. I can tell as early as mile 3 according to my notes when I'm having a bad day and need to move to plan B
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#8603807 - 03/28/16 05:16 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: stickaz_old]
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Eh, bottom line you're trending in a positive direction. So whatever you're doing seems to be working.

My next race comes up this weekend - 200 mile Ragnar Relay with the Run Club. Goal is to finish alive.
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#8603853 - 03/28/16 06:28 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Design]
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^sounds like fun. 8 man team I imagine?
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#8603868 - 03/28/16 06:44 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: schtickaz.ai]
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12 total. My section is split into 3 legs... total of 22 miles.
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#8609997 - 04/02/16 09:26 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: CrazeD]
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 Originally Posted By: CrazedQ50
 Originally Posted By: dirtyS13drifta
 Originally Posted By: CrazedQ50
 Originally Posted By: stickaz_duex
unless that 28:xx effort was quite "soft" it's hard to make much in terms of gains in anything short of like 3-4 months I think? 6 weeks is *almost* about the time to start your taper for the race. hahaha.

good way to know if the effort was soft? Did you ...around mile 1.5.... know definitively that there was absolutely no way you could maintain the current pace for another 1.5? , then you know the pace was good

You look like you are a sub 20:00 5k waiting to happen tho /homo [1.5 yrs? haha]


I was suprised that I was still feeling good at the halfway point.. Normally I lose like 2-3 minutes on the back half \:\( .. There I was able to keep pace the whole time.. guessing I was at about 85-90% effort.

you got 90 seconds just practicing to push your effort level

that practice will probably give you another 20 seconds of improved fitness.


It's seriously easy to cut 2 minutes off a first 5km. 4 weeks tops.

The next 2 minutes could take 4 months to 4 years.


You smart!

After running about 3 times a week, I'm inside 27 minutes now.. after getting used to the distance and how much exertion I can withstand for an extended period, my best time is now 26:40

So I have a little under a month to attempt to shave off another 2 minutes.



Ok.. this is getting harder now
Still trying to get down to a 8min/mi pace or at least inside of 25 mins for 3 miles.


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#8610003 - 04/02/16 09:34 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: CrazeD]
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Nice! Already faster than cheesegoggles!

I still say ur a sub 20:00 5k waiting to happen
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#8610238 - 04/03/16 11:54 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: stickaz_old]
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heh.. maybe in a year or so if I keeps at it. I think what really helps me is improving my power to weight ratio lol. Im actually down 15 lbs and can probably do another 10lbs.

Running minus a 25lb anchor helps alot! \:D
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#8610273 - 04/03/16 12:38 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: CrazeD]
stickaz_old Offline
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Beat my goal time by a bit over 4 minutes wewt. Nice low HR avg also (142), I definitely left some time on the table but I'm tired of blowing up at mile 8

PR baby, 13 minutes faster than last year on this course. I nailed those hills heh



You can kinda see I waited till mile 8 to push the pace, past all the hills but one and my HR was nice and low I was convinced I was having a 'good' day. I definitely got the HR up into the mid 150s uphill tho, the one on mile 3 had me thinking about cashing it in heh.
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#8610389 - 04/03/16 04:05 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: stickaz_old]
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Your average HR is lower than I manage on my easiest of recovery runs. Can you hold a conversation while running flat out then? \:\(

Good work, sir.
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#8610494 - 04/03/16 07:53 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: 2000SiRacer]
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Congrats Stickaz!
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#8610626 - 04/03/16 09:57 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: stickaz_old]
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 Originally Posted By: Rich&VibrantUsername
Nice! Already faster than cheesegoggles!

\:\(

I ordered new running shoes before leaving on vacation a couple of weeks ago with plans to get back at it.

Then I fell off the luggage carousel in Orlando and turned my ankle. Still fucked up a week later and can't run. Maybe some day.

Edit: also congrats and fuck you on your half!!!


Edited by CheeseGoggles (04/03/16 09:58 PM)
Edit Reason: fuckity fuck fuck

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#8610713 - 04/04/16 12:11 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Cheesegoggles]
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Why was your mom letting you play on the baggage carousel? \:D

 Originally Posted By: CheeseGoggles
 Originally Posted By: Rich&VibrantUsername
Nice! Already faster than cheesegoggles!

\:\(

I ordered new running shoes before leaving on vacation a couple of weeks ago with plans to get back at it.

Then I fell off the luggage carousel in Orlando and turned my ankle. Still fucked up a week later and can't run. Maybe some day.

Edit: also congrats and fuck you on your half!!!
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#8610948 - 04/04/16 09:25 AM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Sir Ironpool]
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 Originally Posted By: Mrs. Ironmom
Why was your mom letting you play on the baggage carousel? \:D



10:00 p.m. flight out of Orlando got canceled at about 2:30 a.m. It was either stay in the Orlando airport for 20 more hours, or retrieve my luggage and drive 80 miles to Tampa for an earlier flight. Carousel was stopped with bags in different location and retrieving one required climbing around like I was a 9 year old on a jungle gym. Then misjudged the height stepping down.

Things have been very slowly improving, but still too sore for any running.

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#8611482 - 04/04/16 03:29 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Cheesegoggles]
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thks guys/again
sorry for the call-out CG, just pullin' your chain a little

alright on to sub 1:40 HM now \:D
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#8614056 - 04/06/16 02:41 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: stickaz_old]
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Hockey is pretty much done now, so back to stairs for more anaerobic shit.

Found a new flight of stairs to run too, 242 continuous. I'm sure I'll have concrete calves tomorrow. Previous stair case I ran at was 190 steps which I alternated sets between singles and doubles.
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#8614227 - 04/06/16 04:19 PM Re: Running/Cardio Thread [Re: Impulsive]
schtickaz.ai Offline
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u don't run downstairs do you? I tried that last year and have now banned myself for life from running downstairs [knee pain 24 hrs later]
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