#32509 - 03/27/03 10:22 PM
ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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JDM Civic
Post Master Sr
Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 9180
Loc: Mississauga
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YOUR ITR VALVETRAIN QUESTIONS ANSWERED HERE
This is a thread dedicated to the repetative valvetrain questions we frequently see in the NA Tuning forum. Many of teh question you might have will be answered here so take the time and digest this information prior to posting a thread regarding a question that is already answered here.
ITR = Integra Type R
The valvetrain consists of the following
8 Outer Intake Valvesprings
8 Inner Intake Valvesprings
8 Outer Exhaust Valvesprings
8 Inner Exhaust Valvesprings
8 Intake Valves
8 Exhaust Valves
16 Retainers
The valvesprings come with a splash of blue or yellow paint on them from the Honda factory. This is to distinguish the intake springs from the exhaust springs.
Intake Springs = Yellow
Exhaust Springs = Blue
ITR valvetrain will fit into any B series DOHC VTEC head.
When upgrading to a larger cam with more lift and duration than stock B16A or GSR cams, upgrading valvesprings is also recommended in order to handle to additional force the cams inflict.
ITR Valvetrain is safe to use with any of the following cams. Consider that the cams will be tuned and will be kept within the ITR valvetrain threshold and the cams peak power parameters.
Meaning, you do not rev a TODA Spec A to 9500 RPM. Not only will you bind the ITR springs, but you will make no power as the cams lobes are not large enough to maintain any type of power producing capabilities. You will go faster and put more power to the ground, if you shift at or slightly above peak power.
What Are Suitable Camshafts For ITR Valvetrain?
OEM Honda Camshafts
JDM Integra Type R (95.5 - 97)
JDM Integra Type R (98 - 01)
USDM Integra Type R (97)
USDM Integra Type R (98 - 01)
Civic Type R (96 - 97)
Civic Type R (98-00)
* yes I realize a lot of these are the same, lets not try to nit pick and keep things as broad and simple as possible.
It is also perfectly fine to use any other DOHC VTEC B series cams with ITR valvetrain, but you will get back to the point of using springs too stiff for your application, and not going to be making power past redline anyways. The best thing to do is use the stock valvetrain for the stock cams.
Aftermarket Camshafts
TODA Spec A
JUN Type II (2)
Spoon Sports
Skunk2 Stage 1
* possibly others that are un named, check out the specs in the cam guide and if similar to the specs of these aftermarket cams "within reason", than assume so or post regarding their valvetrain requirements
Can I Use My Mugen or Spoon Valvetrain With The Camshafts Listed Above?
Most definately. Mugen & Spoon are sister tuning companies of Honda, meaning that a lot of their products are produced by or with Honda.
Speculations regarding Mugen's valvesprings and their differences from the stock ITR valvesprings ahve been claimed. Nothing has yet to be proven enough to convince this individual. They are equally as good as ITR valvesprings if not slightly better. It is rumoured that they may be lighter weight, or slightly different in their exterior coating. Again, no speculations have been "proven" thus far.
I Am On A Budget And Cannot Afford ITR Springs, Is There Anything I Can Do To Run The Cams Listed Above?
Personally I do not think the installation of aftermarket cams should be done on stock B16A or GSR valvetrain. To experience the full benefits of the camshafts you will need to tune them and rev them beyond the 8200 limiter.
I also do not like to "half-ass" anything internally on my engine. In my personal opinion an NA build should be done properly, and if that means spending an extra $200 on valvesprings now, oppose to $1000+ to port & polish and repair my damaged cylinder head later, than I will do so. Its your engine though and you can do what you please.
Here is what you can do if you already have a B16A or GSR. It has been tried and tested, and yes it does work with very few failures reported over the years.
The ITR Exhaust (blue) valvesprings are the equivelant to the B16A INTAKE springs, and are IDENTICAL to the GSR INTAKE springs. This is all according to Acura/Honda part #'s which do not lie.
So what does this all mean, if I have a B16A/GSR and am putting in cams?
You will tranfser your B16A/GSR Intake springs (both inner and outer, 16 total) to the exhaust side of the head. Now you must purchase the ITR Intake springs (both inner and outer, 16 in total) and place them on the intake side of the head. You will keep your stock B16A/GSR retainers and they will fit just fine.
Do I Need To Buy Valvesprings At All?
You can....... But you will have to maintain a stock redline, and be conservative on tuning. The midrage that the cams offer should be okay for stock valvesprings, but the top end will simply crush stock springs.
Again I recommend at least going with the ITR intake, B16A Intake setup as a bare minimum.
What Retainers Should I Use, Or Are Stock Ones Fine?
The choice of retainers is fairly easy. If you plan to stay under 9000 RPM, than stock ITR retainers will be fine. If you wish to rev higher it is recommended to go with a Titanium retainer from an aftermarket company (Ferrea, TODA, JUN, Skunk2 etc...)
Titanium retainers are lighter and stiffer than stock retainers. They like to be reved high and are widely used in larger cam applications. They do have a wear and tear factor that is not as durbale as the OEM retainers.
Nitrade Coatings have been experimented with to help the retainer from scarring or "pitting". If you request mre information than this brief summary on retainers, than please post so. I do not personally know a lot about them.
So I Got My Cams, Valvesprings, Retainers, And They Are Installed. Now What?
With any engine modification you must tune the engine and its management system (ECU) to respond to the changes.
In order to get the best performance out of these aftermarket cams you will need the following.
Adjustable Cam Gears (get the same manufacturer as your cams)
ECU Upgrade (re-chipped OBD1 ECU with appropriate program, Jumper Harness + OBD1 Chipped ECU for OBD2 Users, CTR ECU for OBD2 Users, or a more advanced tuning system like a Hondata or AEM)
Fuel Pressure Regulator
VTEC Controller (VAFC) Fields and Apexi are among the most popular.
DYNO TIME & Butt Dyno (road testing) plays with fuel pressure yourself and play with teh VAFC. Start conservative and progress from there. You will be able to notice a difference when you change things.
What About Additional Modifications I Need To Feel The Benefits Of These Cams? Valves?
Induction System - You will need to bring in more air than your stock filter and airbox will give you. Many people choose a simple intake or icebox. Some go hog ass wild and buy an ARC Induction Box.  You get what you pay for, but under most cases a simple intake such as a J's Racing or Comptech Icebox will do nicely.
Header - If you do not have a header that will flow exhauts fumes from the head quicker than stock or a POS USDM DC than you better get one now. Most people opt for a 2.5" collector. This is also know as a JDM header design. 4-2-1 will pull you more midrange and IMO is a better header all around compared to its counterpart a 4-1. If you have money to spend look towards a Spoon, Toda, Mugen etc... If you are on a budget go for an OEM JDM ITR, or a JDM DC 4-1. These are on average $500 cheaper than the Spoon etc. But will make less power, and not look as bling!
Exhaust - 2.5" is best for an NA build. If you are using ITR cams or better than 2.5" will be perfect. Look for a madrel bent exhaust in stainless steel. It will outlast aluminized and isn't too much more to afford. Many muffler shops can make you piping or you can buy from any manufacturer you like the design of. Personally I'm a large fan of the Mugen Twin Loop, and the SMSP.
Hi-Flow Cat or Test Pipe - Match it to your header and exhaust. www.testpipes.com or look for a carsound catalytic converter. Both are offered in 2.5" or 2.25" if you choose.
The above information is all you "really" need to feel the cams and enjoy them. Obviosuly the next step will be to build the block for more compression and port the head for more flow. We are getting ahead of ourselves here and this isn't what the thread is about so we must seize.
What Type Of Power Can I Expect From The Cams Listed Above?
This is a very broad question. All the cams above are designed a little bit differently. For example. The Toda A will make very nice midrange but will not produce the same top end as the Skunk2 Stage 1. They are profiled differently. This is where you need to look at a dyno chart/graph and see where the cams peak, where they start to pull more power than stock, and this way you can help decide on which cams you want to go with.
A lot of people like midrange for daily driving, because the car feels strong up to the VTEC crossover where VTEC will pull the top end. Others like a top end screamer. A Skunk2 Stage 1 cam will have similar profiles to an ITR cam with about equal midrange, the top end however will pull harder and longer than an ITR cam.
Again reading dyno charts and further researching independantly will help you drastically in your decision.
Final thoughts
Before even thinking of cams or an NA build altogether, there are a few things you must remember.
1) The power will not come overnight. An NA build is a process, it is not a bolt on JRSC that will give you 50whp.
2) Mild cams that use ITR valvetrain may not be "enough" for the person in quest of 12's or the extreme speed junkie
3) If you do not tune them properly, you will not make any power, and your car will run like shit. We cannot stress tunign enough.
4) With any modification such as cams, you need to make sure proper maintenece is done and that a routine checkup for things such as cam gear bolts being tight, timing belt wear, valve adjustments, and teh all mighty frequent oil change.
If you do choose to install cams however you will feel the exhiliration of a smooth midrange all the way up to a marval VTEC crossover that will literally "snap" the slience and allow your B series engine to sing her favourite song all the way up until 8600 RPM (considering you have already tuned to this RPM and know you make power here. Remember what we talked about   ) Cams rank very high on my list of worthy modifications. After riding on JUN 3's I know what cams are capable of, and just how much a few lobes can make a difference.
Good Luck & Keep Tuning!
Regards
Cal
Edited by MadtownSi (09/23/03 10:57 AM)
_________________________
Irish Intelligence
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#32511 - 03/27/03 10:44 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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smileypaul
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 3565
Loc: Brampton Ontario Canada
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Cal,
thanks for this post.. everything I was confused about, or needed more information on, you've cleared up here. I guess my first step is a b16, then ill follow you're guide.
thanks for your help,
Paul
_________________________
RE: Batmobile Parking - "Nah, you just pull up, pop your head out the top and say, to whoever's in front of you, "excuse me, you're in my parking spot"...and then you hit the button for the machine guns to pop up." --NOHC
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#32513 - 03/28/03 11:09 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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00tec
Jr Member
Registered: 08/24/01
Posts: 417
Loc: Jersey
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WOW this was a HUGE help!!! Thank you!!!
_________________________
00 EBP Si
Some Skunk2 goodies!!!
www.p1auto.com
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#32514 - 03/28/03 11:36 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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samkarp
Post Master Sr
Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 5807
Loc: Milwaukee WI
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Grear job Cal, I could not have said it better myself. This will be part of the new NA Tuning sticky post when that is finalized.
_________________________
~Sam Karp~
SCCA-Milwaukee
"Autocrossers always make good road racers, but road racers do not always make good autocrossers."-T.C. Kline
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#32518 - 03/28/03 03:39 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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OSOKWIK
Jr Member
Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 541
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It answered a couple of questions I had. Nice job.
_________________________
'99 SI, Skunk2 cam gear,ITR valvetrain, cams,
intake manifold, and throttle body, AEM cai, DC 4-1, Race cat., Greddy Evo., Hondata s200 w/ 3 step
Many hours on the dyno tunning it....
08/18/03:
157.8 whp
107.7 wtq
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#32520 - 03/28/03 04:25 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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illCivicSi
Sr Member
Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 1028
Loc: Port St Lucie, FL
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Yeah thanks for postin this...really helped out a bunch!! later 
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#32523 - 03/29/03 01:00 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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vsmcivic_rida
Newbie
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 71
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MMmm i want nice midrange. So i guess its gonna be between skunk stage1 , spec a, ctr
Also i was wondering if someone would hold a camshaft wit their bare hands would this damage it, just incase i buy used.
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#32525 - 03/29/03 05:57 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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00tec
Jr Member
Registered: 08/24/01
Posts: 417
Loc: Jersey
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Quote:
Quote:
Also i was wondering if someone would hold a camshaft wit their bare hands would this damage it, just incase i buy used.
Midrange Toda A will own. No you cannot damage a camshaft by holding it, unless your hands are composed of molten lava and the shaft literally melts.
Regarding the B16A retainers I am not sure if they are identical to ITR. I will look into this and get back to you. As far as ITR cams in a B16A, the B16A retainers have been proven to be fine.
See i don't know now...
According to a post on here that I found today and can't seem to find again now, the part numbers on both the b16a retainers, and ITR retainers were exactly the same...
_________________________
00 EBP Si
Some Skunk2 goodies!!!
www.p1auto.com
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#32526 - 03/30/03 01:27 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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vsmcivic_rida
Newbie
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 71
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I put on some 17s n man the car feels so slow.
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#32527 - 03/30/03 04:53 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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Beave0101
servant of egosgame
Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 15941
Loc: San Diego
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Quote:
ITR Valvetrain
<------Requesting info on ITR LMA's
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#32531 - 06/20/03 01:55 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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baisaacs
Jr Member
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 628
Loc: Burnsville MN
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ive got some 14751-p72-003 and 14761-p72-003 and all are blue....what are they from? Will they work ok with my CTR cams?
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#32533 - 06/20/03 02:42 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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cvclover
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 7311
Loc: NYC
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What sould the new redline be with Toda B's? 9300?
Could anyone make a post about building the block for compression?
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#32535 - 06/20/03 06:39 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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APRcivic
Post Master
Registered: 09/17/01
Posts: 2389
Loc: Irving,Tx,USA
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Bravo, bravo.. Nice post..
Just a note, we just ordered a set of Ti Retainers from Crower. We talked to Brian Crower and asked him about the 'wear' problem. He said last years retainers had a bad problem because they use too soft of titanium and people were very displeased. He said this year the price went up about 30% but he claimed that this years are a much higher grade titanium and should last as much as 3 times longer than last years before they show signs of wear...
Once again awesome post...
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#32536 - 06/23/03 08:05 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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baisaacs
Jr Member
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 628
Loc: Burnsville MN
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Quote:
Don't quote me, but the P72 tells me that they are GSR springs.
Now both are blue you said? Thats odd. This means you got two pairs of exhaust springs.
You will need ITR intake and exhaust springs to support CTR cams. If you plan to keep the stock redline on your computer considering its 8200 or less, than the springs will be fine if you get a set of GSR intake springs.
If you plan to use the cam to full advantage, get ITR intake and use GSR intake as exhaust or ITR exhausts
interesting. so all i need to do is order 8 pieces of each of the ITR intake side? so that probably is the same numbers, but a P73. Then use the P72's on the exhaust side and sell the leftovers or trade.
i feel st00pid.
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#32538 - 06/23/03 05:46 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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baisaacs
Jr Member
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 628
Loc: Burnsville MN
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Quote:
Wrong. You will need the ITR intake springs , and either the ITR Exhaust Springs OR the GSR Intake Springs.
Basically you have 2 sets of GSR exhaust springs, which are useless when using ITR cams 
ok, no biggie since i got them dirt cheap. on itrca.coma they have the ones ive got listed for inner/outer exhaust?? What are the part numbers for that I need. thanks.
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#32539 - 06/25/03 10:01 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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illCivicSi
Sr Member
Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 1028
Loc: Port St Lucie, FL
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what are skunk2 s1 cams supposed to make power up to?? Also PEAK power?? (roughly) thanks!
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#32541 - 07/07/03 04:05 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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Em1_SiR
Jr Poster
Registered: 04/06/03
Posts: 122
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Just had a quick question...I recently installed ITR cams w/ vavletrain...I have also a spoon header w/ cold air...Replaced my lma's and timing belt also...But my engine light is coming on...tested it and it said that my car is running too rich not enough oxygen coming in...what could help this prob? Vafc? If i don't use to vtec wire on the vafc can i just use Safc to adjust it?
Thanx
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#32542 - 07/28/03 12:04 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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cruzersi99
Post Master
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 2513
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What is the threshold of ITR Valvesprings assuming CTR Cams?
_________________________
186 whp - Church Automotive (Dynapack) 189 whp - Zero Factory (Bosch) 
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#32544 - 10/24/03 01:21 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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Smokebox
Newbie
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 24
Loc: Tx, USA
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I was planning on getting some ITR cams.. but i found CTR cams for sale for a pretty good price new, Im wondering if these 2 are the exact same... (CTR cams = ITR cams)? or does one produce more power?
I dunno any help would be useful
_________________________
97 red honda civic lx sedan b16a swap full head work, etc
[url]http://pyrracing.com/  [/url]
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#32545 - 10/24/03 11:23 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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MoesFlashBlueCar
Post Master Sr
Registered: 04/28/02
Posts: 4853
Loc: Pontiac, MI
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#32546 - 11/14/03 02:40 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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str8_B16A
Jr Poster
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 129
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extremely helpful man! thanks a lot
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#32547 - 03/22/04 01:42 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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PearlBlueB16
Jr Poster
Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 122
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What type of ECU do you suggest for a mild setup? I have CTR cams w/gears, and the usual I/H/E. I read a little about the Hondata s100, and its said to be the correct way of tuning your car. The hondata can be pretty pricey, so i was looking for maybe a chipped p28. How do I know what fuel map to get for my setup, and who to get it from. thanks for the help guys!
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#32549 - 03/26/04 05:36 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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PearlBlueB16
Jr Poster
Registered: 03/16/03
Posts: 122
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So with a hondata ecu, will there be varying points with which Vtec engages? because there are far more Vtec engagement points with the stock ECU as opposed to one using a V-AFC. Is it possible to tune a V-AFC to an OBD2 vehicle? I read that OBD doesnt take well to tuning.
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#32550 - 04/01/04 03:24 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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EK4er
Jr Poster
Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 149
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Is it absolutely safe to run CTR valvetrain with Jun2 cams??
i mean the vtec lobes measure 12mm!! wouldn't it bind??
www.importreview.com tested the CTR valvesprings....and it binds at 12mm of lift...
so which is which??
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#32551 - 05/02/04 09:16 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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2000Ebp_Si
Poster
Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 277
Loc: Wisconsin
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Awsome FAQ....it helped me greatly
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#32554 - 08/20/04 10:57 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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EK4er
Jr Poster
Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 149
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hmmm....because i'm very tempted to get toda bs....but have already bought the ITR springs (inner and outter)....and i'll be keeping to the stock redline....since toda bs have great midrange.
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#32562 - 07/03/06 03:53 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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si_black_00
Jr Member
Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 674
Loc: Kansas, United States
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i ordered what were told to be itr valve springs and retainers but i dont see any yellow or blue paint on them, would it have worn off? how can i tell which is which?
_________________________
~2000 Honda Civic Si~
I/H/E, Cams/Gears, Clutch/Flywheel, NepTune
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#32563 - 07/11/06 01:52 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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si_black_00
Jr Member
Registered: 12/13/04
Posts: 674
Loc: Kansas, United States
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bump
_________________________
~2000 Honda Civic Si~
I/H/E, Cams/Gears, Clutch/Flywheel, NepTune
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#32565 - 09/12/06 06:07 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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SCskunk2Si
Newbie
Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 38
Loc: south carolina
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so im getting S2 stage 2 cams and S2 pro series cam gears
am i really going to need new valve springs and retainers?
if so i plan on getting supertech any other recommended springs and retainers?
b16a NA
Edited by SCskunk2Si (09/12/06 06:35 PM)
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#32568 - 10/20/06 12:17 AM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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nutz4misi
Poster
Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 304
Loc: Delaware
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Quote:
No, I would look into stronger valvetrain for those cams...
ok, cool, what would be good for them then? thanks
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#32570 - 11/13/06 06:10 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
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coolcatsi
Newbie
Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 15
Loc: delaware
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i could be wrong but i heard that the better of the set ups is to keep the b16 springs on the intake side and type r intakes on exhaust. now i no this sounds wrong but i was told that the b16 springs are stronger because the valves are heavyer. which would make sense. the problem lies on the exhaust side because the are just single spring set up. working at honda dealership i have personaly seen just the exhaust valves bent when some floated the valves.(overreved)
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#1248295 - 04/11/07 11:30 PM
Re: ITR Valvetrain + Mild Cams (FAQ)
[Re: coolcatsi]
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Spoonson
Newbie
Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 2
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Please give me a hand on this.
I'm using itr valvetrain on my b16a, and I'm stuck with choosing a cam. Basically, my question is whether Toda B & Jun 3 cam are ok to running with itr valvetrain? Let say if I keep it under 8800rpm.
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